Thomas Massie is a Republican member of Congress from Kentucky’s 4th Congressional District. Bob Zadek introduces him in a 2020 episode as having represented that district since his election in 2012, and as a guest he had followed and rooted for over much of his life Prime time for the PRIME Act (2020). Two other episodes from the same program mention Massie in passing: a 2014 conversation with Derek Khanna and a 2022 conversation with William Ruger and Jason Sorens.
The 2020 PRIME Act episode
The April 30, 2020 episode is built around Massie’s legislative response to what Zadek describes as a fragile American food supply chain. Zadek opens by noting it is “painfully rare” that he gets to spend an hour with a guest he has followed and supported, and describes Massie as having warned that a USSR-style food shortage was coming, with empty supermarket shelves especially at the meat counter Prime time for the PRIME Act (2020).
Massie’s own account of his road to Congress centers on leaving New England for Kentucky. He says he and his wife moved back to their hometowns partly to avoid big government, and that he discovered you cannot escape the growth of government — federal and local — and that it was “literally diminishing people’s quality of life.” He frames his purpose as battling the growth of government rather than government as such, saying there are legitimate roles for government but that it has gone “way outside of its constitutional boundary” Prime time for the PRIME Act (2020).
He describes installing a debt clock on his office wall before even hanging pictures of his wife and kids, updated every second to show the national debt, so that he would not forget why he went to Congress. His stated goal is to try to stop the debt from growing. He recounts that his youngest daughter, visiting his office for the first time, asked whether the clock would go backwards once he fixed things — a question he says he had not considered, and which he treats as evidence that a child understood the debt needed to be reduced rather than merely halted. In December, he says, the office replaces the debt clock with a Christmas clock counting down the days to Christmas, giving the staff a reprieve Prime time for the PRIME Act (2020).
He also explains that lobbyists and special interest groups come through his office more than a dozen times a day, most of them seeking more spending, and that he hopes having them wait where they can see the debt clock will make them somewhat more restrained in their requests. Zadek compares the debt clock to a Sharper Image novelty clock that, after the buyer answers about ten questions about age, weight, smoking and drinking, displays the hour and day of the buyer’s death — an analogy he acknowledges is off-message Prime time for the PRIME Act (2020).
Massie says his wake-up call came 48 hours after arriving in Congress, when a staffer informed him he had made a mistake in voting no. He told her he had read the bill, which is why he voted no. According to his account, the staffer replied that the vote was not being whipped that night, so he could vote as he wished — an exchange he says left him dumbfounded, that a staffer in her twenties had given him permission to vote his conscience. He notes that the voting card he was handed belongs to 750,000 people in Kentucky, not to a caucus, a party or a member of leadership Prime time for the PRIME Act (2020).
He describes voting against Speaker John Boehner and joining a revolt against him within weeks of arriving, noting that Boehner had done a fundraiser for him the previous September. He recounts a lunch in the basement of the Capitol Hill Club about eight weeks into his term, arranged by the woman he had hired to help him raise money in Washington, with three lobbyists from the medical device industry. He says they told him he was wasting his time on the transportation, oversight and science committees, that he needed to be on Ways and Means, and that they were prepared to raise the money required to get him there. He also says they told him Paul Ryan would be the next chairman of Ways and Means — information he says he had not heard anywhere, and wondered how they knew. Massie says the meeting was one of the slimyest he had ever attended and that he told his chief of staff he needed a shower afterwards Prime time for the PRIME Act (2020).
From that meeting, Massie says, he learned that a member must give about a million dollars to the party — Republican or Democratic — to get on the Ways and Means Committee. He argues it would be impossible to go home to Kentucky and ask friends and neighbors for $50 or $500 checks for that purpose, so members pass the hat with lobbyists instead. He insists he does not want listeners to think a committee seat can be bought: you have to rent it, you have no equity, and every two years you have to pay again. Zadek characterizes this as the last vestige of at-will employment, which Massie affirms. Massie adds that leadership can call the lobbyists and, in effect, tell them not to support a member if they want their legislation in the next omnibus bill — cutting a member’s Washington fundraising from 60 to zero in about four seconds Prime time for the PRIME Act (2020).
Massie also describes insisting that Congress adhere to the rules of conduct in the Constitution — Zadek frames this as an “outrageous act” — by requiring members to vote in person rather than anonymously and from afar on the first $2 trillion bailout measure. Zadek says this earned Massie the scorn and snide tweets of many in Congress and of the President Prime time for the PRIME Act (2020).
At the close of the episode, Zadek tells Massie he has about the world’s worst job but urges him never to quit or resign, saying he is essential to the freedom of the listeners. Massie replies that he will go back to raising some beef cattle, and Zadek wishes him good luck in the primary Prime time for the PRIME Act (2020).
Mentions in other episodes
Massie appears twice in the 2014 episode on cell phone unlocking, where Derek Khanna names him among the Republicans who helped the campaign to pass unlocking legislation, alongside Chairman Bob Goodlatte Derek Khanna - What’s Stifling Innovation? (2014). No description of Massie’s role or contribution is offered beyond the acknowledgment.
In the 2022 episode on Freedom in the 50 States, Zadek says that no candidate he has ever seen — “except perhaps Justin Amash or Thomas Massie” — runs on a platform of standing for freedom, meaning a promise to take a position on any bill based on its effect on freedom. He laments that freedom does not seem to be a compelling reason to select a candidate. William Ruger, working at a 501(c)(3) organization, declines to speak to particular legislation or to back candidates, and instead suggests that working on campaigns is often a more scalable contribution than voting Ranking Freedom in the 50 States (2022).
Across episodes
The excerpts show no development in the treatment of Massie across the three episodes. The 2014 mention is a single name in a list of helpful congressmen; the 2022 mention is a single aside about candidates who run on freedom; the 2020 episode lets Massie speak at length on committee fundraising, the debt clock, the bailout vote and food supply. No question raised in 2014 or 2022 is taken up again in 2020, and no position Massie states in 2020 is revisited later.
What the sources do not cover
The excerpts do not describe the PRIME Act’s provisions, its legislative status, or any vote on it. They do not give the outcome of the primary Zadek mentions at the end of the 2020 episode, nor Massie’s electoral history beyond his 2012 election. The excerpts do not state which chamber of Congress Massie served in beyond the references to committees and leadership votes, and they do not cover his position on cell phone unlocking or any subject other than those he addresses in the 2020 hour. None of the excerpts describe the fate of the first $2 trillion bailout vote he forced.
Episodes
1 appearance, 2020–2020.
- Prime time for the PRIME Act (2020) — Food supply chain fragility and the PRIME Act. US Representative from Kentucky