ZadekpediaJacob Sullum is a senior editor at Reason magazine and the author of Saying Yes: In Defense of Drug Use and For Your Own Good: The Anti-Smoking Crusade and the Tyranny of Public Health. He appeared as a guest on The Bob Zadek Show in 2009 to discuss hate crimes legislation and in 2020 to discuss COVID-19 policy.
On the show
2 appearances, 2009–2020.
- 2009-07-25 · Hate Crimes Legislation · 60:02 — Critique of Hate Crimes Legislation and Federalism.
- 2020-03-27 · How to Stay Sane as a Libertarian on Lockdown · 52:21 — COVID-19 mortality rates and public policy challenges.
Their books discussed on the show
Hate Crimes Legislation (2009)
Sullum joined Bob Zadek to critique hate crimes legislation, particularly the Matthew Shepard Act. Zadek framed the discussion around whether some lives are worth more than others, and Sullum argued that penalty enhancements based on group identity violate the principle of equal protection under the law. He noted that the legislation was attached to a military funding bill in the Senate, and that Republicans introduced an amendment to add service members to the categories receiving extra protection—illustrating what he described as constant competition between groups over inclusion Hate Crimes Legislation (2009).
Sullum emphasized that hate crime laws are actually used, not merely symbolic. He stated that identical crimes with identical harm could receive penalties twice as severe based on the perpetrator’s beliefs, and that in California a case triggered the hate crime statute even though the victim was not in fact Jewish but was perceived to be. He acknowledged that political motivation was a factor but cautioned against concluding the laws are therefore unused Hate Crimes Legislation (2009).
Zadek raised the Reconstruction era as a comparison, noting that federal intervention was needed then to protect blacks from routine and organized assaults by the KKK and complicit officials. A caller identified as Al from San Francisco, who described himself as a black male, distinguished the 1871 KKK Act from the Matthew Shepard Act on the grounds that there was no comparable organized effort against homosexuals. Sullum agreed that if evidence showed state and local officials routinely ignored crimes against homosexuals, there would be an argument for federal involvement, but he saw no such evidence. He pointed out that in the Matthew Shepard case itself, local authorities almost immediately caught, convicted and imprisoned the perpetrators, and that Wyoming—one of the few states without a penalty enhancement statute—handled the case without federal intervention Hate Crimes Legislation (2009).
Sullum also raised the possibility that hate crime legislation could stir up more hatred by creating the perception that certain groups receive special treatment. He described this as hypothetical but plausible. Zadek cited a finding that two-thirds of hate crimes were committed by thrill-seekers, suggesting deterrence would not work. Sullum observed that once certain groups receive special protection, others naturally want it too, because otherwise they feel less respected Hate Crimes Legislation (2009).
Zadek also raised the Child Protection and Safety Act, which he said allows civil commitment of federal prisoners deemed sexually dangerous. Sullum explained that this law permits preventive detention of people who have completed their sentences, based on predictions of future crimes, and that the Supreme Court had already approved such practices at the state level as “treatment” rather than imprisonment Hate Crimes Legislation (2009).
COVID-19 and Lockdown Policy (2020)
Sullum returned to the show in March 2020 to discuss the uncertainties surrounding COVID-19. He identified the most important unknown as the virus’s true mortality rate, noting that estimates ranged from 0.1%—comparable to seasonal flu—up to 1%, with some epidemiologists suggesting it could be as low as 0.05%. He cited CDC projections of 1.7 million deaths in the worst case and an Imperial College projection of 2.2 million, but argued these were implausible because they assumed relatively high fatality rates and failed to account for voluntary behavior changes How to Stay Sane as a Libertarian on Lockdown (2020).
Sullum emphasized that without knowing how many people are infected and what percentage will die, rational policy making is impossible. He noted that the 2008–2009 recession cost an estimated $22 trillion and warned that lockdown measures could produce a comparable or worse economic impact. He rejected the approach of doing whatever it takes for as long as it takes regardless of cost, arguing that if the cost is huge and the benefit small, such measures are not justified How to Stay Sane as a Libertarian on Lockdown (2020).
Across episodes
The two episodes address different topics—hate crimes legislation in 2009 and COVID-19 policy in 2020—and the episodes show no development of a single question across them.