“Picking winners and losers” is a phrase used across several episodes of The Bob Zadek Show to describe government policies that favor particular firms, industries, or outcomes over others. The concept appears in discussions of industrial policy, fascism, occupational licensing, and barriers to market entry, and it is generally treated as a criticism of state intervention that distorts competition.
Industrial policy as picking winners and losers
In a 2022 episode, guest Scott Lincicome defined industrial policy in the simplest sense as “the government picking winners and losers in the market.” He elaborated that industrial policy typically involves several elements: a focus on manufacturing rather than services or agriculture; targeted and directed microeconomic support that is firm-specific or industry-specific, as opposed to horizontal or economy-wide policies; an attempt by government to fix what it believes to be market failures and to achieve commercial outcomes; and an express protectionist element requiring that market-beating outcomes be generated within national borders. Rethinking Industrial Policy (2022)
Lincicome illustrated the distinction between targeted and horizontal policies by contrasting steel tariffs, which protect a specific industry, with corporate tax reduction, which applies broadly. He also noted that industrial policy aims at measurable commercial outcomes such as more jobs, better products, or more steel output, and that the government is trying to beat the market rather than merely recreate what the market is doing. He gave the example of wanting American-made solar panels rather than solar panels from anywhere, and of protecting and subsidizing a domestic solar panel industry rather than giving consumers a coupon to buy panels. Rethinking Industrial Policy (2022)
Fascism and the intertwining of business and government
In a 2017 episode, guest Anthony L. Fisher distinguished fascism from capitalism, describing fascism as “the complete intertwining of business and government” and as “picking winners and losers.” He characterized it as a different kind of top-down economic system. The context was a discussion of Antifa, in which Bob Zadek noted that a pro-Antifa speaker had opposed capitalism, and Fisher argued that fascism is not capitalism. Anthony L. Fisher on Antifa Violence & Neo-Reaction (2017)
Fisher also discussed the use of political labels, saying that labels like anti-fascist can become meaningless when they are applied broadly. He compared this to people on the left who call themselves pro-choice but are not pro-choice about school choice, and people on the right who are pro-life but support the death penalty and war. He described this as virtue signaling. Anthony L. Fisher on Antifa Violence & Neo-Reaction (2017)
Permissionless innovation and barriers to entry
In a 2014 episode, guest Derek Khanna discussed “permissionless innovation,” a term he said is used in Silicon Valley. He explained it as the idea that a person can have an idea, gather friends, build an iPhone app or a new website, and launch it in the morning without asking anyone for permission, getting a license, hiring a lawyer to figure out the regulatory environment, or paying off a local city council member. He noted that most such ideas fail, but that the environment allows them to be launched. He contrasted this with creating a new car manufacturer in the United States, which he said requires a gaggle of lawyers before an engineer is even on the team. Derek Khanna - What’s Stifling Innovation? (2014)
Bob Zadek argued that the real bar to entry in the automobile market is the established franchise system, which he described as operating as a barrier, citing Tesla as an example. He said that in most states Tesla is denied the right to sell cars other than through a franchise dealer, and compared this to a hypothetical requirement that Apple sell its products only through Best Buy and other dealers. He also compared it to Uber, saying the resistance comes from the established cab industry, which he described as having cartels in most American cities where one has to pay to play. He said these barriers to technology hurt every consumer in America. Derek Khanna - What’s Stifling Innovation? (2014)
Khanna cited the example of Chrysler Motors in 1936 as the last new American car company to enter the market before Tesla, and said that the fact there have been no successful new entrants in that market in 75 years indicates something is wrong. He also referenced a focus group after the 2012 election conducted by the National College Republicans with pollster Kristen Soltis Anderson, in which a participant said Republicans should figure out what barriers to competition exist and work to reduce them. Khanna said that what does not resonate with young people is cronyism, the Ex-Im Bank, picking winners and losers, government bailouts, and more of the same. Derek Khanna - What’s Stifling Innovation? (2014)
Occupational licensing
Bob Zadek described occupational licensing as a topic he has covered over six years of shows, and said he despises the word “license” because it suggests governmental permission. He gave examples of needing permission to braid hair, to organize and make a floral bouquet, or to decorate an apartment, and described the concept as requiring a person to beg permission to earn an honest living. He said that a platform supporting the right of people to earn an honest living without barriers would resonate strongly, and that Republicans have left it on the ground. Derek Khanna - What’s Stifling Innovation? (2014)
Khanna agreed, and said the term used in Silicon Valley is “permissionless innovation.” Bob Zadek asked him to explain the concept, calling it important. Derek Khanna - What’s Stifling Innovation? (2014)
Across episodes
The topic appears in three episodes spanning 2014 to 2022. In the 2014 episode, Derek Khanna and Bob Zadek discussed permissionless innovation and barriers to entry in the context of occupational licensing and the automobile franchise system. In the 2017 episode, Anthony L. Fisher applied the phrase to fascism as the intertwining of business and government. In the 2022 episode, Scott Lincicome defined industrial policy as picking winners and losers and elaborated its elements. The excerpts show no development or change in the treatment of the concept across these episodes; each guest uses the phrase in a different policy context without referencing the others.
What the sources do not cover
The excerpts do not state the name of any bill, the holding of any case, or the amendment on which any case turned. They do not give the founding date or principle of any organization, nor the title or field of any person beyond what is stated. The 2017 excerpt ends mid-sentence in Bob Zadek’s question, and the 2022 excerpt ends with Bob Zadek’s label and no further text, so no content from those points is included.